Take it this way, someone shoots at you, you at them. https://www.policeone.com/police-heroes/articles/6199620-Why-one-cop-carries-145-rounds-of-ammo-on-the-job/, http://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2015/07/08/u-s-military-makes-monumental-shift-hollowpoint-pistol-ammunition/, https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/defense-against-bears-with-pistols-97-success-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/, Victim Uses Awareness And a Gun to End Armed Attacker, S8E5: The Battle over Gun Registration & Assault Weapon Ban Rages On, Man Disarmed And Shot With Own Handgun in Parking Lot, Finally a Holster for the SIRT Pocket Pistol, Watch This Before You Shoot Your Pistol!! Note how velocity is squared, and mass is halved. The larger a projectiles surface area, the greater its ability to transfer its energy to the target, instead of simply penetrating straight through. I am not going to address the whole military, spec-ops, battlefield blah blah. As someone just coming in your home or coming at you out of the blue. Thanks for your comment! I use +P ammo. If I wanted to hit a little harder, I would maybe look for a WC .45 mold in the 220 to As might be expected, larger-diameter bullets produce more devastating wound cavities and have a greater likelihood of striking vital organs. The louder the pop the more credence is added to his choice to continue in his efforts his engagement with you. This, as with any other type of penetration test, is plagued with inaccuracies. You have bo clue what youre talking about other than maybe your steel target fell over a little easier with a heavier bullet at the range. A true warriors gun. F = MA is absolutely true as it applies to ballistics. I like both, so it is a matter of how balanced and comfortable is it when in use ? High-velocity It has been reported by Heritage about how there are a number of personal protection gun uses that make the news in any given month, but are given a tiny fraction of the attention that mass shooters and other violent gun criminals receive. When fragmentation occurs, the permanent cavity expands rapidly and dramatically. I have a medical issue that makes it easier for me to carry a double action in a very small package. Avoid contact with other people's blood and body fluids. So they fudge the data. We can argue 9 vs 45. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. One of the best ammo in the market right now is Hornady Critical Dury which is 135 gr. and love a SA trigger. You need to be a little more specific. .45 caliber merely refers to the diameter of the bullet. There are a large variety of cartridges that fire b Colt Defender 3" 45 ACP; Colt Gov't 70 Series; Kimber Warrior, w/ Rail; Kimber Warrior II; Kimber Super Carry Pro; Kimber Super Carry Ultra, 45 ACP, 3" Remington 1911 R1 Enhanced 5" 45 ACP; Ruger SR1911 Commander 4 Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammerless the is bone different muscle mass fat and other bonds in our bodies They found that their guns wouldnt stop the insurgents charging at them, until seconds or minutes after the bullets entered their adversaries bodies. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position you can make a crowd of men. When the engagement really happens and it is very fluid you are going to point shoot. Sit back and take a deep breath and pray that if I am ever involved in a use of force criminal trial, pray like mad that this Marine is NOT called as an Expert Witness because I do not think there is enough toilet paper in a courthouse to clean up the mess this guy is going to make from his testimony. I can not remember a single specific instance of someone shot with JHP, where I knew for a fact at the time what I was looking at. Penetration, velocity, expansion, its all there. Math is absolute and backs what Ive stated. Only two factors are within your control: the location of the wound and the amount of tissue destroyed. Your tax-deductible donation will directly support nonprofit journalism on gun violence and its effects on our communities. Having had lots of time with all 3 (9mm, 40 s&w and 45acp) yes the 9 is easier to fire and carries more ammo but in my experience you need that extra ammo to stop the threat. EVER! How about that..most people shot by handguns survive. That said today I only carry my 5th gen Glock 19. 15 -25 yards lol I can hit you in between the eyes with my co2 bb pistol. The one that traveled the furthest was looking back over its shoulder and was hit in the muzzle. JavaScript is disabled. I recently bought a Sig P227 Tacops. Good job! Interesting. It turns out, however, that things arent that simple. The new .50Ae desert eagle has as much recoil as the 1911/M45 which is unrealistc (the .45 has alot less recoil). This is because, unless you get a central nervous system hit extremely difficult there is no physiological reason a target would become incapacitated until blood loss and extreme loss of blood pressure occurs. My department stopped using them in 45 cal because there were enough malfunction to stop. In September 2014, LooserRounds posted an article titled FBI Training Division Justifies 9mm Caliber Selection. The .223 is carrying 335 foot-pounds of force, while the .22 carries 70 foot-pounds. That is closet weights I can readily come up with from factory offerings. I dont have a dog in that race but it is important to give proper information, not just anything that will satisfy your viewpoint no matter how erroneous. (stress free situation) I also have a sig, p38 and carry that when its warm out.hightly concealable in a alien gear holster. Not everyone can adequately conceal a full-sized Colt 1911. I hadnt even gotten halfway through the article before coming to the same conclusion. Over time, conditions that damage the liver can lead to scarring (cirrhosis), which can lead to liver failure, a life-threatening condition. It may take 2 rounds to take someone down, but the shooter will have a lot easier follow up shots with the smaller 9mm. You prefer the .45 for stopping power? Source: Sign up for new product alerts, company updates, and more! You're Dead: 5 Deadliest Bullets In The World They're just as important as the gun that fires them. Frank K. Seems to me that when using the same style bullet in the 45 and 9mm the 45 would still beat the 9 in stopping power. First off, its important to understand what the term refers to. I can say with great certainty that many animals dont just simply fall over and die. He taught criminal law/procedure at the FBI Academy. For example, a shot through the side of the body must penetrate between 10 to 12 inches to hit the heart. I am sure the debate will go on till the last Cockroach dies . There were no exit wounds. I had a neighbor when I lived outside Fort Worth. After hours of research, I ordered a Glock .357 sig. All this newer powder and more efficient bullets. Garand Thumb 2.84M subscribers 4.2M views 1 year ago 9mm vs 45 ACP, the age old debate and the one that 25 ft same situation, I was surprised at 50 ft when my 45 actually tore the watermelon to shreds even more so than 15 and 25ft, the 9mm remained the same, 100 ft I actually missed 3 times with my Walther q4 9mm before I hit. Pistol calibers can work well if you dispense them from an SMG and send lots of them at a time. Larry Muhr, A little anecdote. It's the most comprehensive and trusted online destination for law enforcement agencies and police departments worldwide. But what I am struggling to understand is some of the ludicrous logic coming fromvarious sides of the issue. Government can spend less of my tax dollars (maybe. Practice, practice, practice. SEMPER FI. Projectile weapons work by transferring kinetic energy to a target, which ripples out as a shockwave through tissue as the bullet plows through the body, leaving a cavity in its wake. I have formed the opinion that the 9mm is adequate, the 40 S&W is better and the 45 is best. Nobody I know whos had to use issue 9mm M882 Ball is terribly impressed with it, either for the way it penetrated light cover like auto bodiesadmittedly, if you are shooting at someone protected by an automobile chassis, you should have brought a rifle, if not a grenade launcher with HEAT rounds or something belt-fed with the black-tip ammo that have the depleted uranium coresor for the way bad people reacted to being shot with it, which was usually not at all for quite some time barring a hit to the brain or spinal cord, or multiple hits, as in the whole magazine and maybe another. Much more likely is that you will be suddenly and unexpectedly attacked by a rapidly and unpredictably moving target with limited opportunities for counter attack. I am not aware of any hollowpoints that were designed to expand on the way to the target. WebThe 45 will but them down and bleed them out real quick with a gut shot, the 9mm will have them flopping around and may not stop them from firing back, also from the pools of blood near the bodies the 45 does more damage. Most of these wanna be gangsters are cowards and are used to shooting at people who dont have guns to shoot back. Reality. According to the song the battle for New Orleans, canonbalks were fired from alligator mouths which showed resourcefulness. Modern ammunition changes the field somewhat. I only want to pull the trigger 1-3 times. Vital organs sit deep within the human body, so penetration and permanent cavity volume are important factors. The programs, policies, and people driving positive change in Americas gun violence problem. A. H. Hassall, The microscopic anatomy Wellcome L0024127.jpg 1,080 1,787; 799 KB. Even long range shots! The earlier FBI testing left no doubt that tissue displacement was greater with the larger rounds. The bullet lands in the same place because the entire situation and milieu is what determines it. I think its preference and if you can conceal it. It was a contact shot into the center chest on a sleeping target. So for over a couple hundred years size mattered in stopping power, or say incapacitating an opponent. Testing shows terminal ballistics of modern 9mm is virtually the same as the .40S&W or the older .45ACP round. For two decades, MARSOC operators have been allowed to carry custom-built Colt 1911s chambered in .45ACP. We all, sitting safe and pretty, can discuss this and that but we are NOT in their shoes. Yes, yeas I have. What I saw in Korea during the Korean War was that the .45 ACP was the most deadly Since doing some research on the new ammo for the .380 acp, Ive decided that 17-22 of penetration from Lehigh & Ruger Personal Defense rounds, I carry the Browning Black Label .380. The 9mm is being adopted by military and law enforcement due to its higher capacity and lower price, as well as the reduced recoil which increases accuracy for many who find the .45 a bit much to handle. Spread the word; knowledge is power! A 7.6225 is venerated as so amazing by PPsh humpers. My neighbor saw that the guy was afraid of the thing and couldnt get back on target after the 1st shot due to the recoil and his flinching with every shot. The comparisons that I have seen conducted under those conditions seem to be pretty equal. So logically the 45 is more effective at stopping Humans, than the 9mm, data from lethal census. Elton Makin was a US marine in World War One. In September 1918 American troops had overrun the German front line, and he was sent back carrying a Come On People!! This translates to a simple formula for shooting success: practice, practice, practice. More rounds the better. I like how the author notes that the accuracy analogy is nonsense, thats true. This myth continues not because of fact, rather because of unsubstantiated statements like this. Well judging by the fact that .45 has been killing people since at least the 1870sI'd say it can really screw up your day. Officer Needs Help!!! Any weapon is only as good as its owner, making the person behind the trigger the single greatest factor in how much stopping power a gun ultimately yields. It is also a logistics factor 45 is just one more different ammo to resupply. Penetration of 7" pine boards for various pistol calibres: Illustrative penetration capabilities of a 30-06 full -jacketed rifle bullet at a velocity of 2700 ft/s and at a range of 200 yd: 1" of armour plate 7" of gravel 4.5" of brick 4" of concrete 32" of oak wood 6.5" of dry sand 7" of moist sand 26" of loam 24" of clay 19" of loose earth 60" of 1" pine boards, Continue reading here: General wound ballistic concepts, FREE Military Tough 6-in-1 Tactical Survival Knife, Free 2nd Amendment Gun Rights Silver Coin, Green Beret Master Sergeant Home Security Checklist, Winning Plays Texted To Your Phone That Comes Directly From An Elite Team Of Sharps, Ballistics Theory Straight Line Muzzle To Target, Internal External and Terminal Ballistics, High Standard Pistols - Firearms identification, Drop In Auto Sear - AR15 to M16 Conversion. Im not going to begin to discuss the variables between the two calibers and cartridge designs but statistics released from DOJ shows that larger cartridges are more effective at stopping Humans per round on target. I carry a number of different calibers depending on what Im wearing that day and where I intend to go; but I no longer even own a 9mm. I just make it my business to shoot all handgun cartridges well out to 25yards. 0.177" Lead air gun pellet requires a minimum of 300 ft/s velocity to penetrate fresh human skin. I'll tell you what DOES impact penetrationit is the frontal area of the bullet and its relative friction and resistance as it impacts a body and attempts to travel through. I dont plan on using a handgun for long distance shooting. Also the .45 will ring your ears like hell and most self defense scenarios are you are not wearing ear protection. Hmmmmsince there probably wont be any takers how about we all shake hands and realize were all bound brothers with the same interest. Basically what I'm saying is the .50 is almost the same size as .45 and the tissue damage is near the same. Im 73 yoa. 0.22" Lead air gun pellet at 600 ft/s will penetrate 4' plate glass. Heck a well placed .22 in the head can get the job done. For damage; within 50m against soft targets I want to say it goes 7.62 >.45 > 9mm. Just some REAL world observation not keyboard commando stuff. If you want to test that theory in a real world environment. But you have to shoot the gun your most accurate with and most comfortable with but if you dont seat the grip of any pistol in the web of the hand deeply all guns no matter what the caliber the gun will whip in the hand. By now, people should have realized that it is 100% personal opinion and preference. Mr. Walked closer and finished it with a 44 round between the eyes. My personal opinion is that the military has found that many recruits are unable to accurately fire the .45 and cannot manage the recoil.